Den ugandiske redaktøren og aktivisten Andrew Mwenda er motstander av u-hjelp - og fikk applaus på Frp’s landsmøte. Stiller i nettmøte mandag.

•Andrew Mwenda stiller i nettmøte mandag. Send inn spørsmål under artikkelen.
- LØNNES AV NORSKE SKATTEBETALERE: Ugandas president Yoweri Museveni. Ifølge Mwena er Museveni en diktator som indirekte lønnes av norske skattebetalere, over bistandsbudsjettet.

- LØNNES AV NORSKE SKATTEBETALERE: Ugandas president Yoweri Museveni. Ifølge Mwena er Museveni en diktator som indirekte lønnes av norske skattebetalere, over bistandsbudsjettet.

GAVEPAKKE: Mwenas standpunkt med hensyn til u-hjelp er som manna fra himmelen for Frp, som helt siden starten har vært sterke motstandere av norsk bistandspolitikk. Her takkes uganderen av formann Siv Jensen etter talen.

GAVEPAKKE: Mwenas standpunkt med hensyn til u-hjelp er som manna fra himmelen for Frp, som helt siden starten har vært sterke motstandere av norsk bistandspolitikk. Her takkes uganderen av formann Siv Jensen etter talen.
Foto: KNUT FALCH/SCANPIX

IKKE IMPONERT: SVs nestleder Bård Vegar Solhjell tilbakeviser Frp's dom over bistandspolitikken og viser til en bred internasjonal enighet om bistand som virkemiddel. - Til og med USAs president er enig med oss når det gjelder hvordan bistandspengene skal fordeles, sier Solhjell.

IKKE IMPONERT: SVs nestleder Bård Vegar Solhjell tilbakeviser Frp's dom over bistandspolitikken og viser til en bred internasjonal enighet om bistand som virkemiddel. - Til og med USAs president er enig med oss når det gjelder hvordan bistandspengene skal fordeles, sier Solhjell.
Foto: MORTEN HOLM/SCANPIX

Oslo, Norge




GARDERMOEN (Dagbladet.no): Et av Norges første omfattende bistandssamarbeid startet i 1973. Mottakeren var Uganda.

Bare i 2006 ga Norge 323 millioner kroner til landet, store deler var direkte budsjettstøtte.

Løpende utgifter og det som normalt er statlige velferdsoppgaver står for størsteparten, ifølge Utenriksdepartementets egne tall.

- Jeg tror Norge bidro til å kjøpe inn stoler i parlamentet, men det gjør ikke Uganda mer demokratisk. Bistanden fra Norge og vestlige land har gjort korrupsjonen verre de siste årene, sier redaktør og aktivist Andrew Mwenda (35) fra hovedstaden Kampala.


Applaus hos Frp
Han er internasjonalt kjent som en sterk kritiker av bistand. På Fremskrittspartiets landsmøte i helgen satte han hjerter i brann da han gikk til angrep på den vestlige bistandspolitikken.

- Norsk bistand brukes til å holde live i korrupsjonen og vanstyret i blant annet Uganda. Humanitære midler fra velmenende idealister, både organisasjoner og stater, holder landets eliter ved makten i flere land, på tross av folkets vilje, mener Mwenda, som flere ganger har vært arrestert for sine meninger og arbeid som journalist.

President Yoweri Museveni har styrt landet i 22 år. Det forrige presidentvalget ble sterkt kritisert for omfattende overgrep mot opposisjonen.

- Hvorfor betaler norske skattebetalere lønna til en diktator? Det er absurd, sier Mwenda.

Mangler ambulanser
Et av eksemplene Mwenda bruker for illustrere hvordan gode bistandsintensjoner blir til elitens hvileputer, er en offentlig ugandisk undersøkelse fra 2006.

- Den viste at vi hadde 3200 biler til disposisjon i helsesystemet vårt. 1800 av disse disponeres av ansatte, byråkrater og hjelpearbeidere. Samtidig har Uganda 961 helseregioner som ikke har en eneste ambulanse, forteller Mwenda.

Han beskylder norske myndigheter for å «bidra til å korrumpere staten» i Uganda.


Kutt av bistand feller Mugabe
Zimbabwes diktator Robert Mugabe sliter stadig mer med å holde kontrollen i landet. Regimet er verdenskjent for omfattende korrupsjon og vold mot opposisjonen og journalister.

De siste årene har bistandsgivere falt fra, i protest mot regimets opptreden, og Mwenda ser på dette som et eksempel til etterfølgelse for hans eget land, der korrupsjon er utbredt og demokrati og ytringsfrihet har trange kår.

- Mugabe kan klamre seg til makten en periode til, men han går tom for penger til å smøre folk med, og han mister kontrollen. Bistand har holdt ham og mange andre diktatorer gående i mange år, men nå tror jeg det er over for hans del.

Samtidig rapporteres det om mangel på mat i landet.

- Er det ikke inhumant og brutalt å kutte bistand til mennesker som sulter og er i nød, fordi de har inkompetente ledere?

- Jo, men du må se det i et langsiktig perspektiv. Lar man være, blir lidelsene større, fordi endringer ikke tvinger seg frem, mener Mwenda.


Økonomisk liberalist
Mwenda betegner seg selv som økonomisk liberalist, er tilknyttet tenketanker som Cato Institute og sitter i juryen for Milton Friedmans ærespris.
Bør Norge fortsette med u-hjelp?
Ja
Nei
» les resultatet


- På samme måte som Frp tror jeg på en liberalisert økonomi der individer tar informerte valg i et fritt marked. Og at investeringer - ikke gaver - er det beste bidraget fattige land kan få.

I dette ideologiske sjiktet er tradisjonell bistand et fy-ord. Mwenda mener hans ideologiske utgangspunkt bare forklarer en del kritikken.

- Regjeringen har 71 ministere, og presidenten vår har 114 rådgivere. Hvor mange har dere selv i Norge? spør han retorisk.

- Ministrene i Uganda vil ha en leilighet i New York framfor sosial velferd. Dette er virkeligheten, og jeg mener det skyldes feilslått bistand og vestlig idealisme.


- Kidnappet forrige lørdag
For tre år siden truet Mwenda president Yoweri Museveni med at «hans dager ved makten var talte» dersom regimet la ned radiostasjonen hans. Han har hatt gjentatte konfrontasjoner med regimet, senest rett før ferden til Norge.

Forrige gang Mwenda så innsiden av en politibil, forteller han, var forrige lørdag, da han ble kidnappet og arrestert av ugandiske paramilitære som ville ha tak i intervjuer hans avis Independent gjorde med 17 tidligere arresterte.

De fortalte om omfattende tortur. Historien spredte seg rask til internasjonale medier.

De truet ham til å stoppe bilen på en landevei, satte på ham håndjern og tok ham med i en annet kjøretøy.


- Fikk beskjed om ikke å drepe meg
- De paramilitære soldatene pekte våpen mot meg, og vi kjørte deretter rundt i en halvtime mens de lurte på hva de skulle gjøre med meg. Soldatene fikk beskjed om ikke å drepe meg, og deretter kjørte vi til avhør og til huset mitt.

Men intervjuene, som skal publiseres, var allerede borte.

- Uheldigvis for dem, og heldigvis for meg, var materialet allerede fløyet til Canada av en kollega, sier Mwenda.

- Hva tenker du om opplevelsen i etterkant?

- Først og fremst er jeg glad de ikke fikk tak i intervjuene. Men når man starter en avis for å fremme frihet og ytringsfrihet i Uganda, og de vet at dette mangler i landet, så ville jeg vært bekymret om de ikke brød seg. Når dette driver dem til å bli paranoide, så føler jeg at vi utgjør en forskjell, sier Mwenda.


Gavepakke for Frp
Den ugandiske redaktørens standpunkt er en gavepakke for Frp, som helt siden starten har vært en sterk motstander av norsk bistandspolitikk.

- Den ene Norad-rapporten etter den andre viser at det går til helvete, og liberale krefter i afrikanske land ber om forandring. Likevel sitter regjeringen på sin høye hest og sier at de tar feil, sier formann Siv Jensen til NTB.

- I 35 år har vi forsøkt å forandre bistandspolitikken. Vi er blitt latterliggjort og beskyldt for egoisme. Selv om det er mange feil i bistandspolitikken, reiser en liten bistandsfiff rundt fra konferanse til konferanse uten at det blir endret en tøddel, sier partiformannen oppglødd.


- Flaut av Jensen
Men Frp's utspill faller dødt til jorda for SVs nestleder og utdanningsminister Bård Vegar Solhjell. Han mener Jensen stiller seg i et pinlig lys.

- Jeg er helt enig i at vi må hindre at norske bistandspenger havner i hendene på korrupte, men vi kan ikke slutte å gi penger, slik Frp vil, sier Solhjell til NTB.

SV-nestlederen viser til at det er bred enighet internasjonalt om bistand som virkemiddel.

- Til og med den amerikanske presidenten er enig med oss når det gjelder hvordan bistandspengene skal fordeles. Jeg ville blitt alvorlig bekymret om Siv Jensen skulle bli statsminister. Det ville blitt flaut, sier Bård Vegar Solhjell.
 
Publisert søndag 04.05.2008 kl. 04:45, oppdatert 09:27

Send inn spørsmål til nettmøtet her!

Nettmøtet er avsluttet. Les svarene fra Andrew Mwenda nedenfor.

Freedom of expression
    Hi!
    Today it is the government that is the main advertiser in radio broadcasting and other media in Uganda. For that reason they may dictate to some extent the content of the programming, since the radio stations are dependent on revenues from advertisers. Is this a problem as you see it, and what meaures can be done in order for the radio stations and other media to be more critical and less biased toward the government and the President?
    Innsendt av: Bjoernar Moerk
this is a great question but i have run out of time. possibly another time we will discuss it. bye to everyone
 

Some aid are benefical - point should be made
    I fully appreciate your point about substantial amounts of money towards aid ending up in corrupt dicators hands. This is a huge and important issue that needs to be addressed. However, I am surprised at your generalisation on this issue, billions has been given directly to agencies for projects that has benefitted the population directly. I think this point should be made clear, not all the money is channeled through corrupt goverments.
    Finally, i have to ask you - have you read The Progress Party's political programme? Has anyone told you what they say about black people in Norway (mostly Africans) for example? I am surprised that an intelligent person like yourself will be used by a party that do not consider all human beings as equal.
    Innsendt av: Amalie
not all aid has been bad, i agree. but that is the exceptional cases. on the whole, aid has been harmful, when not directly, at least through its un intended consequences.
andrew
 

what should the norwegians do?
    I m very happy that u have spoken to the norwegians about how the money doesnt help the right people,instead its helping the dictators.But dont u think stopping it totally wont hurt the poor ones?is there a way u can suggest that the money goes to the right people.Thanx
    Innsendt av: angelle
first, the poor are not beneficiaries of aid. the politicians, aid experts and civil servants who are not poor are the ones who take most aid money. so the poor will lose little or nothing if aid goes away.
the best think is to support private businesses.
andrew
 

Birth rates, poverty and education
    You are an interesting man. My questions: Uganda has the third highest birth rate in the world only beaten by Niger and Mali. High birth rates is often found in countries with poverty. Do you think the first causes the second? Are there any policies or plans to reduce births in Uganda? Would you support such plans? Teaching women to read might
    be one policy (reading women tend to get fewer children). Do you support foreign aid for education and reading programmes? Do you think rich countries should offer more student visas to poor countries or is it better to support universities locally, if at all?
    Innsendt av: Norways hugest white fan of Jimmy Katumba :-)
i think high birth rates are a sign of poverty. however, high population growthrates are a sign of improving healthcare which reduces infant mortality. i personally think population growth is good. however, as people become richer, they reduce on breeding children. the solution is not family planning but sustaining economic growth to make citizens richer
andrew
 

just a comment
    I largely agree with your analysis, but to me it seems that you don't recognise the national interests (in e.g. norway) to do aid; that because norway is close to give 1% of GDP to aid norway is accepted and taken seriously in international fora, such as World Bank, UN, etc. Foreign aid is important to national politics among donors. In norway the debate is more about 'do-good'ing' and apparent altruism. I totally think we should have a more POLITCAL debate about aid - why do we do it, what do we want to achieve, and how to tackle the conditionality-participation nexus: Of course there is no ugandan ownership to PEAP anymore, its totally been shanghai'ed by donors (see UJAS) but donors still talk about national ownership to legitimise breaches of state sovereignty - the problem is that Ugandan population (maybe not the incipient middle-class you represent) buy into this rhetoric. As such, development is a highly political game, and the donors master it quite successfully, as Museveni DID in the late 1980s early 1990s.
    Innsendt av: john
i agree with your argument jon
 

Western incompetence or corruption?
    The norwegian foreign aid minister Erik Solheim recently "lost" 30 million dollars in Tanzania. To what degree do you think western politicians are involved in the widespread corruption? I mean; it's almost too obvious that they can't be THAT incompetent.
    Innsendt av: Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen
some of them are, others are simply naive
 

Justifying the egoism!
    Why do you participate together with this extreme right wing organization?
    What kind of education do you have to speek about development in Africa? I know 100s of researchers which will disagee with you.
    Innsendt av: Michael R.
well africa has been recieving aid for 50 years, but has been growing poorer, not richer. with 600 billion of aid, we should see a miracle in africa. but we are seeing misery. why dont you think that we should question the status quo?
andrew
 

Investments in Africa
    Hello Mwenda

    You say that the best way the West can support african countries is through investments. So far I agree, but I believe that investors from the West are reluctant to invest in Africa because of the lack of reliable institutions, like banks, insurance companies and governments in most African countries. In Zimbawe, Robert Mugabe has taken over all the farms and companies that formerly belonged to whites. As a result, many people in the West find it too risky to invest money in Africa.

    How do you think we can invest money in Africa at a fair risk, and still can make profit from it?

    Regards
    Innsendt av: Christian
ALl african countries are not like zimbabwe. in fact many of them are increasingly developing market and business friendly policies and institutions. business people in the west can partner with their counterparts in these countries in africa to grow enterprises
andrew
 

Hamburger politics
    Thank you for providing a fresh breath of air into the foreign aid debate, Mr. Mwenda.

    The public image that is provided of Africa and Africans here in Norway is one of a continent ravaged and torn by disease, poverty and dispair.

    This image is in no small part a result of the lobbying of the industrial-foreign-aid-complex, constantly in search of goodwill and funding for their projects.

    So to turn this matter around, my question to you is:

    - when this plethora of various aid organizations descend on africa with their various projects - how is this...ahem.. circus viewed by the Africans?

    Thank you, and good luck in your future work.


    Innsendt av: Stig
many africans feel insulted by those who think that all we deserve is handouts. africans want partners in business, not patrons of charity
 

Investment in Tree planting and modern Agriculture
    Our company Better Globe will start investing in tree planting and help poor farmers with modern agriculture methodes in Uganda in 2009.
    Du you think this is a good way of giving "Aid" to Uganda?

    If you think so, do you think that Governments like the Norwegian should rather support this kind of businesses instead of giving direct money to the Ugandan Government?
    Innsendt av: Rino Solberg
Yes, it is a good proposition and Norway should support such businesses to grow and prosper
 

Salary levels of african politicians
    The information below is cut from today's (4. May 2008) editorial of the largest kenyan newspaper, The Daily Nation (www.nation.co.ke or www.nationmedia.com/dailynation). All amounts have been converted from kenyan shillings ¿KES¿ into norwegian kroner 'NOK' at today's exchange rate of NOK 1 = KES 12,1099.

    ¿¿.. The President of Kenya earns NOK 148.600 a month, his ministers earn NOK 99.100, their assistants NOK 80.300. Members of Parliament, the so-called people¿s watchmen, earn NOK 70.200, the bulk of which is untaxed. ¿.. Workers at the minimum wage ..... will earn kr 450,- ¿.. The income of a worker at the minimum wage is 0.6 per cent of that of an Member of Parliament. ¿.. Out of a budget of kr 47 milliarder which is to be spent in the current financial year, the kenyan government will use about kr 38 milliarder (80 per cent) to maintain itself and only 20 per cent on development. ¿..

    QUESTIONS: 1. Are such horrendous inequalities the reality all over Africa? 2. As a Minister normally is a Member of Parliament in East Africa: Does he earn his Minister's salary on top of his salary as Member of Parliament? 3. Are political leaders in East Africa also tribal leaders, meaning that political parties as a general rule in reality only represent certain ethnic groupings and tribes?
    Innsendt av: Reidar Schaanning
Yes, politicians in africa are the most paid in comparative terms to others in the world. however, it is not their salaries that are critial but the results of their work. if they were really delivering on infrastructure, economic growth, better education and healthcare, someone could forgive their salaries and even argue that they are justified to earn more. but we are paying the most incompetent people the highest wages. that is the proble.
Andrew
 

Hate philosophy
    Do you think that suporting a Nazi parti who hates everything that you represent good not only for africa but for africans living abroad?
    A parti that in a daily basis is dedicated to hunt and torture peopel because the colour of they skin, is the right parti to speak about the future of a continent whom peopel have the wrong skin colour? do you thing they really care?
    Innsendt av: Jørn hunter
which party does this?
 

Substiute?
    Even if we should stop giving money to your country, what should we do instead? I think the government are afraid of stopping, because they don't want to look cheap. Therefore it may be easier for them to consider your suggestions if the can give a substitute in a way?
    Innsendt av:
They can stop giving money to governments, especially those that are corrupt, brutal and incompentent and give it to businesses that are innovating new ways of doing business in africa. the west needs to stop financing failure and begin to finance success.
andrew
 

Investeringer
    Jeg tror jeg har oppfattet deg rett og må si på vegne av Solhjells SV, vestlige land generelt(når han henviser til "internasjonal enighet") at de er på villspor. Jeg føler at med å stadig gi drypp av mat til afrika(les:bistandsmidler) er vi med på å opprettholde situasjonen. Jeg spør meg selv, og deg, hva er motivet? Ønsker ikke vesten et konkuransedyktig Afrika? Er motivet til det internasjonale samfunn(les: hvite vesten) at vi ønsker et afrika på kne? Har vi nok med konkuransen fra asia? Jeg er hjertens enig med Frp, vekk med bistand, inn med investeringer, la Afrika blomstre!
    Innsendt av: Tom Olsen
the main motivation for aid is the socialist belief in central planning. many people on the left think that the best way to improve people's lives is for the government or the internaitonal community to plan for them.
andrew
 

Thanks for setting things straight.
    I'm glad Norway finally heard from a person with first-hand knowledge of the situation in your home country. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. Hopefully things will soon change for the better.

    Take care.
    Innsendt av: Yngvar Spone
pleasure

 

Change in aid.
    As a Tanzanian I've seen how aid from Norway has shifted as direct gifts to the governments to the NGO's instead. Having also worked for the Red Cross/Red Crescent I have witnessed this shift first hand. Don't you think that foreign governments, like Norways, have learned and changed their primary policies on how to provide aid? Rather than just giving money now giving to projects to start self sufficency.
    I think the money given to the government are necessary in order to be allowed to continue to fund NGO's.
    By the way, I used to work for CH5, I hope you liked some of the programs I sent to you in Uganda! ;)
    Innsendt av: Ali X
I think government aid is problematic. but aid that is given to support businesses is likely to be more productive than aid to governemnts or NGOs
Andrew
 

Hva er alternativet?
    Vi vet at bistand styrker regimene, også de brutale regimene og de regimene som er korrupte. Men hva er alternativet? Skal vi la enkeltmenneskene ute på landsbygda og i byene dø for at det skal bli et regimeskifte? Dersom det var du som stod i faresonen, ville du sagt nei. Bistand har mange uheldige sider, men det redder likevel enkeltmennesker fra å dø.
    Kommentar?
    Innsendt av: Mikkel
Poor people in the countryside do not recieve the aid anyway, so the poor do not benefit from it. and that is why they are dying. aid has not helped, is not helping them and will not help them. people in villages want jobs and markets to sell their crops, not foreign handouts
Andrew
 

FRP are being scrutinized.
    Instead of changing a system that fails to help the people in need, the running government i Norway sends out a message that FRP aim to stop the current aid-program completely. That is not their intension, as you might have heard from them already. But there lies the key problem. How to make the other politicians accept a new direction, one that benefit the people and do not feed the ego of dictators. Any suggestions?
    Innsendt av: Yngvar Spone
I think that if people like the progressive party come to power and diretly move to support small, medium and large scale businesses, and succeed, they will set the tone for the rest of europe
Andrew
 

NORAD rapporter.
    Hvorfor tar ikke politikene i den vestlige verden disse rapportene på alvor?

    Hvorfor er politikerne så opptatt av bistand i stedet for investering i fattige land?


    Innsendt av: Jarle Svendal
It is because politicians want people to depend on them for their survival instead of people being independent agents of their own lives. politicians love to control, especially so when they are socialist.
Andrew
 

Thank you friend!
    You are the first african I heard in our media, critisis bilateral help. I have been working in a corrupt regime, so I understand how it function.
    Keep up the good work.

    Is it possible to provide a list over African companies we can support, istead of feed up fat cats?
    Innsendt av: einar
You can begin with The Independent Pubolications Limited
Andrew
 

Så hva bør vi gjøre ?
    Hvordan kan vi best hjelpe de som virkelig lider i verden ?

    Innsendt av: Knut
BY creating opportunities for them to find better paying jobs and/or profitable trading opportunities
 

Generally agree that Norwegian Foreign Aid is off track
    First out, I think you are a very brave man stating an obvious case to a misguided audience. The Norwegian political class has now come to a point where adventurism, "Noblesse oblige", bad conscience and protectionism have become a combination of inspirational origins for malpractices in the third world.

    The financial corruption that takes place in the third world also has its roots in a culture for political corruption in Norway, and other Western countries for that matter. There are state employees that live and thrive on spending government money on these transfers, and some of these have developed a cynicism and a general disregard for the recipients, their taxpayers as well as the opposition parties in these countries. I do not believe in traditional socialist methods as promoted by Norways extreme left, which has backed up Soviet and Chinese client states in the region, nor do I back up some of the ultral-liberal or neo-conservative think tanks out there, which are occasionally pending between misantrophy and utopism.
    Disciplined corporatism is still a valid option.

    To look for some inspiration on how to drag oneself up from the bog after the hair, I consider Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan and even Chile to be strong examples on long term economic policies. I am certain its hard to balance out socialist, libertarian, liberal, authoritiarian and corporatist dogmas, but I hope
    you are aware that many of the Norwegian players you meet seeks to play you out for domestic Norwegian political purposes, where the welfare of your country unfortunately comes long down on their priority list, as they already got numerous handouts to various clients to handle. I hope you are aware of these pitfalls, and I wish you the best of luck, both in Uganda, and somewhat here in Norway, as both places have unhealthy aspects to deal with.


    Innsendt av: Ketil Horn
I agree with your argument entirely
Andrew
 

What does it take to be the president candidate ?
    I mean. if Obama can. anybody can. Right ?
    Innsendt av:
It takes self belief, self confidence and high levels of commitment
 

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